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 I'd like your opinion, please

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Rai-kun
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PostSubject: I'd like your opinion, please   Wed May 12, 2010 2:44 am

I made this Prestige Class to my own games according to the few examples of the same class that I found over the internet and by what I know of the class myself :3 I'd like to know, what you guys think? Any suggestions on how to make it better?

Blue Mage

“My power is your power!”
Shin Tsarak, a blue mage.


A blue mage is someone, who has witnessed pain and learned to use it against his opponents. They are creatures, who took damage from a monster’s supernatural ability and discovered its secret via a mark left by it and gained the ability for himself. Though called mages, blue mages don’t cast actual spells, but their ability to learn various attacks used against them adds a variable unit to any adventuring party, though many people shun them.
Blue mage is most common among battle oriented classes, who wish to gain something new to their repertoire, but don’t want to learn to cast spells. This also gives them the chance to get stronger during battles and turn the tide of the combat. Warmages often take the blue mage class to increase his effectiveness in battle and a ranger might also wish for a greater chances to fight his favored enemies. Spellcasters rarely take up the path of a blue mage, as it hampers their spellcasting abilities and they blue mage’s way to learn the abilities can turn fatal to a wizard or sorcerer, who aren’t blessed with tons of hit points.


Hit Die: D10

Base Attack Bonus: Starts at +0 and goes up at every level.

Saves: Good Fortitude and Will Saves

Special
Level
1st: Azure Aura, Blue Magic
2nd: Analyze
3rd: Improved Learning (-4)
4th: Battle Fortitude +1
5th: Negate, Improved Learning (- 2)
6th: -
7th: Improved Learning (no penalty)
8th: Battle Fortitude +2
9th
10th: Damage Reduction 10/-


Requirements
To qualify to become a blue mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will
Special: The character must have twice suffered a direct effect from a creature’s Supernatural ability (fail the Save) and survived. This can be the same ability or two different.

Class Skills
The blue mage’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcane) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Spot (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features
All the following are class features of the blue mage prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Blue mages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Azure Aura (Su): Being hit by a supernatural ability leaves a mark on a creature, but a blue mage has learned to harness this small mark and increase it so much that he is able to use the creature’s ability as his own. This makes a faint aura around the blue mage, thus making him detectable by spells such as detect magic.

Blue Magic: A blue mages use their mysterious power to learn the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of their opponents and using those again them.
To learn a supernatural or extraordinary skill, a blue mage must be the target of the ability or in the affected area of the ability used. After suffering from the effect of the ability, a blue mage makes a Spellcraft check to see, if he can understand its nature and learn it. The DC for the check is 10 + ½ user’s HD + the ability’s key ability.
The blue mage must suffer at least some kind of effect from the ability he wishes to learn. Effects that would make him ignore the effect (such as Evasion) prevent him from learning the ability.
A blue mage can learn supernatural and extraordinary abilities number of his blue mage level. He may at anytime choose to give up one of the abilities in his repertoire to make room for a new one. Giving up an existing ability is a standard action and requires DC 15 Concentration check.
A blue mage cannot learn passive abilities.

Analyze: A Blue Mage possesses the ability to sense inherent magical ability in creatures. At 2nd level, by observing a creature carefully, a Blue Mage can identify magical or supernatural qualities present in a creature. The Blue Mage must be able to observe the creature for a full round. At the end, blue mage makes a Knowledge check and adds his blue mage level as a bonus to see, whether he learns of anything of the creature.
If the Knowledge required to inspect the creature in question isn’t among blue mage’s class skills, he can use the skill untrained for the purpose of using this skill. But he cannot learn anything else of the creature except supernatural abilities.
Extraordinary are learned abilities and thus cannot be found by analyze.

Improved Learning (Ex): At 3rd level, a blue mage can now learn an ability used against him even if he did not suffer the effect. This adds -4 penalty to the Spellcraft check however. This penalty decreases to -2 at 5th level.
At 7th level, blue mage can learn an ability even if he did not suffer the effect with no penalty.

Battle Fortitude (Ex): At 4th level, a blue mage gains a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves and initiative checks. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level.

Negate (Su): At 5th level, a blue mage can give up his learned ability and use energy from it to hamper creature’s use of that ability. A blue mage loses the usage of that ability and the creature cannot use it for 1d6 + blue mage level amount of rounds.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 10th level, a blue mage has been through so many hits by creature abilities that normal damage doesn’t affect him so well anymore. He gains damage reduction 10 against normal attacks, such as weapons and natural attacks.

----------------------

If you have an opinion or something to ask, please speak up n.n
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Kiutogi

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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Fri May 14, 2010 1:27 am

Rai-kun wrote:
Blue Mage

A blue mage is someone, who has witnessed pain and learned to use it against his opponents. They are creatures, who took damage from a monster’s supernatural ability and discovered its secret via a mark left by it and gained the ability for himself. Though called mages, blue mages don’t cast actual spells, but their ability to learn various attacks used against them adds a variable unit to any adventuring party, though many people shun them.
Blue mage is most common among battle oriented classes, who wish to gain something new to their repertoire, but don’t want to learn to cast spells. This also gives them the chance to get stronger during battles and turn the tide of the combat. Warmages often take the blue mage class to increase his effectiveness in battle and a ranger might also wish for a greater chances to fight his favored enemies. Spellcasters rarely take up the path of a blue mage, as it hampers their spellcasting abilities and they blue mage’s way to learn the abilities can turn fatal to a wizard or sorcerer, who aren’t blessed with tons of hit points.

I do like the description, it does give me a good idea what I'm looking and and describe what I'm consitering making a character of, That's always a Plus.


Rai-kun wrote:
Hit Die: D10

As for the Hit Die. I'd Drop it down to a D8b maybe a D6, A caster with the Same Hit Die as a Fighter is a tad bit too much hp, Even Clerics have only a D8, And they get heavy armor.

Rai-kun wrote:
Base Attack Bonus: Starts at +0 and goes up at every level.

As for BAB, I'd go or making it Fair. Good, which what it looks like, seems a high for someone who can't use weapons, Unless he comes from a Monk. But Poor, Which is what most casters have, might not be enough, and I'll give my reason farther down.

Rai-kun wrote:
Saves: Good Fortitude and Will Saves

This I really have nothing to say about, it's good as it is.

Special
Level
1st: Azure Aura, Blue Magic
2nd: Analyze

3rd: Improved Learning (-4)
4th: Battle Fortitude +1
5th: Negate, Improved Learning (- 2)
6th: -
7th: Improved Learning (no penalty)
8th: Battle Fortitude +2
9th
10th: Damage Reduction 10/-


Rai-kun wrote:
Requirements
To qualify to become a blue mage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will
Special: The character must have twice suffered a direct effect from a creature’s Supernatural ability (fail the Save) and survived. This can be the same ability or two different.

The Requirements seem Fine, But the Changes I would make to it would be, The character would have to at least cast up to 4th level Arcane Spells, Cause not requiring a spell level means any class could pick it up if they put those points into their crossclass Skills. That's really the only thing I see as a problem.

Rai-kun wrote:
Class Skills
The blue mage’s class skills are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcane) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spellcraft (Int) and Spot (Wis)
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier
I'd add Knowledge (Divine) to there too, since they could technically learn a Divine Spell Like Ability or Supernatural ability, also add Listen, Since with the Analyze ability, they would need to recognize the Verbal chants if there are any with the with the attack.

Rai-kun wrote:
Class Features
All the following are class features of the blue mage prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Blue mages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

I'd at least give them proficiency with Simple weapons, That way they can at least defend themselves if they had stopped gaining spell levels, Thus why up ahead I said to give them a Fair BAB, that way they are at least gaining something from it, and can actually do something with that HP. As for Armor, Leave hm unarmored, He's a Mage, he's ment to be squishy.

Rai-kun wrote:
Azure Aura (Su): Being hit by a supernatural ability leaves a mark on a creature, but a blue mage has learned to harness this small mark and increase it so much that he is able to use the creature’s ability as his own. This makes a faint aura around the blue mage, thus making him detectable by spells such as detect magic.

I do think that you should add Some Spell Like Abilities to that Supernatural abilities as well. But that mght make it OP'ed so it's up to you.

Rai-kun wrote:
Blue Magic: A blue mages use their mysterious power to learn the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of their
opponents and using those again them.
To learn a supernatural or extraordinary skill, a blue mage must be the target of the ability or in the affected area of the ability used. After suffering from the effect of the ability, a blue mage makes a Spellcraft check to see, if he can understand its nature and learn it. The DC for the check is 10 + ½ user’s HD + the ability’s key ability.
The blue mage must suffer at least some kind of effect from the ability he wishes to learn. Effects that would make him ignore the effect (such as Evasion) prevent him from learning the ability.
A blue mage can learn supernatural and extraordinary abilities number of his blue mage level. He may at anytime choose to give up one of the abilities in his repertoire to make room for a new one. Giving up an existing ability is a standard action and requires DC 15 Concentration check.
A blue mage cannot learn passive abilities.

I'd add the Ability to spontaneously Counter Cast the supernatural ability back at the Target with the attacking creatures Roll and adding his Caster level to the Damage done, but at the cost, the Blue Mage could not Learn the Spell, It gives the Player a choice to make, Learn the Spell and use it later, Or Use it now with boosted effect and give up learning it, Some times that extra damage might be worth not learning it if it keeps you from dying.

Rai-kun wrote:
Analyze: A Blue Mage possesses the ability to sense inherent magical ability in creatures. At 2nd level, by observing a creature carefully, a Blue Mage can identify magical or supernatural qualities present in a creature. The Blue Mage must be able to observe the creature for a full round. At the end, blue mage makes a Knowledge check and adds his blue mage level as a bonus to see, whether he learns of anything of the creature.
If the Knowledge required to inspect the creature in question isn’t among blue mage’s class skills, he can use the skill untrained for the purpose of using this skill. But he cannot learn anything else of the creature except supernatural abilities.
Extraordinary are learned abilities and thus cannot be found by analyze.

This Ability seems fine to me, I have to Read it over about 2-3 times before I fully grasped everything about it, It could very useful as a scouting ability so he can inform what the opposing creature can do if it hasn't spotted them yet and they are watching it.

Rai-kun wrote:
Improved Learning (Ex): At 3rd level, a blue mage can now learn an ability used against him even if he did not suffer the effect. This adds -4 penalty to the Spellcraft check however. This penalty decreases to -2 at 5th level.
At 7th level, blue mage can learn an ability even if he did not suffer the effect with no penalty.

This is fine with me, But I'd make it 3rd, 6th, 9th level progression, that way it stays as a multiple of three. But I'm just weird about orderly things like that.

Rai-kun wrote:
Battle Fortitude (Ex): At 4th level, a blue mage gains a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves and initiative checks. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level.

This is fine as well, No complaints.

Rai-kun wrote:
Negate (Su): At 5th level, a blue mage can give up his learned ability and use energy from it to hamper creature’s use of that ability. A blue mage loses the usage of that ability and the creature cannot use it for 1d6 + blue mage level amount of rounds.

Now with this, Giving up a learned ability, is it just for that day, or is it permanent? Cause if it is permanent, then I know quite a few people who would never use this. Now if it's just for that Day, that would make more sense and be a bit more forgiving.

Rai-kun wrote:
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 10th level, a blue mage has been through so many hits by creature abilities that normal damage doesn’t affect him so well anymore. He gains damage reduction 10 against normal attacks, such as weapons and natural attacks.

10/- DR, Really? That seems a bit much, 4/- seems more reasonable, Even the mighty Legendary Dreadnought gains at the most 6/-. And he's the Pinnacle of Tanking, Sorry but seeing that 10/- for someone who's squishy just seems like it's a bit much to me, But that's just my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------

Now I didn't mean to upset you in any way if I did, Those are just the Changes I would make if I was going to let it be played at my Table, Mine is purely a D&D Book worm opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Sun May 16, 2010 7:12 pm

No, I wasn't upset at all Smile Thank you for the feedback ^^

But there are few things =) But the main thing I'd have to note is that even though he is called a "mage", he is not actually a spellcaster. He just uses the abilities of his enemies against them.

Kiutogi wrote:
As for the Hit Die. I'd Drop it down to a D8b maybe a D6, A caster with the Same Hit Die as a Fighter is a tad bit too much hp, Even Clerics have only a D8, And they get heavy armor.

But he does learn his abilites by taking them with full force, so I'd say he needs a lot of HP. But that D8 might still be reasonable.

Kiutogi wrote:
As for BAB, I'd go or making it Fair. Good, which what it looks like, seems a high for someone who can't use weapons, Unless he comes from a Monk. But Poor, Which is what most casters have, might not be enough, and I'll give my reason farther down.

Yes, agreed =)

Kiutogi wrote:
The Requirements seem Fine, But the Changes I would make to it would be, The character would have to at least cast up to 4th level Arcane Spells, Cause not requiring a spell level means any class could pick it up if they put those points into their crossclass Skills. That's really the only thing I see as a problem.

As I said, blue mage is not actually a spellcaster. I though it could be anyone, who just gains deeper understanding against the attacks used against him. But this is a good point, as it would provide useful to have magical knowledge to achieve these =)

Kiutogi wrote:
I'd at least give them proficiency with Simple weapons, That way they can at least defend themselves if they had stopped gaining spell levels, Thus why up ahead I said to give them a Fair BAB, that way they are at least gaining something from it, and can actually do something with that HP. As for Armor, Leave hm unarmored, He's a Mage, he's ment to be squishy.

This is a Prestige Class, so as far as I have understood those, this means he gains no additional proficiensies. He does, of course, retain all he gained from previous classes.

Kiutogi wrote:
I'd add the Ability to spontaneously Counter Cast the supernatural ability back at the Target with the attacking creatures Roll and adding his Caster level to the Damage done, but at the cost, the Blue Mage could not Learn the Spell, It gives the Player a choice to make, Learn the Spell and use it later, Or Use it now with boosted effect and give up learning it, Some times that extra damage might be worth not learning it if it keeps you from dying.


Yes, this sounds good Smile

Kiutogi wrote:
Now with this, Giving up a learned ability, is it just for that day, or is it permanent? Cause if it is permanent, then I know quite a few people who would never use this. Now if it's just for that Day, that would make more sense and be a bit more forgiving.

For this, I still haven't decided that. Even if it would be permanent, I do know some people, who would use it, even if this is the case. But in this case, increasing the effects duration time would be needed.

Kiutogi wrote:
10/- DR, Really? That seems a bit much, 4/- seems more reasonable, Even the mighty Legendary Dreadnought gains at the most 6/-. And he's the Pinnacle of Tanking, Sorry but seeing that 10/- for someone who's squishy just seems like it's a bit much to me, But that's just my opinion.

Now this is not the only prestige class to achieve this. At least I think I remember seeing one or two others. But note that this effect it gained at near 20th level, which means there will be no much attacks against the character, which have absolutely no magical enhancement in them. If the attack has even +1 weapon bonus (being other than Masterwork bonus), this DR is useless.

But this gave me good points I hadn't noticed myself n.n Once more, thank you for the critique~
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Mon May 17, 2010 2:48 am

Rai-kun wrote:

Now this is not the only prestige class to achieve this. At least I think I remember seeing one or two others. But note that this effect it gained at near 20th level, which means there will be no much attacks against the character, which have absolutely no magical enhancement in them. If the attack has even +1 weapon bonus (being other than Masterwork bonus), this DR is useless.

If that was the case, It would be 10/magical. 10/- means 10 DR to Everything.
I got yelled at alot for saying that very same thing, And I was playing with Elitist, So I learned a lot of the exact mechanic real fast. mostly through being yelled at and being made a idiot of.
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Mon May 17, 2010 9:49 am

Oh, well it that case, I have made a mistake :3 Anyways, magical is what I meant

I hate elitits >.< Especially ones like that. It really ain't any mood lifter to get yelled, when you make a small mistake...especially, when the mistake is just because you didn't know. I'd so like to punch guys like that to face...
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:11 am

I like it, find it interesting as I always liked using one in FF5, my only suggestion would be this, they gain proficency with the scimitar, but that is me making a Final Fantasy Tactic Advance reference so meh. but it looks workable.
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:28 pm

Thanks for your opinion n.n

As for the scimitar, I don't really see the reason for that X3 As most prestige classes don't recieve proficiensies with additional weapons as far as I know :3 He has it from previous classes, if he has
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PostSubject: Re: I'd like your opinion, please   Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:54 am

heh as I said just me re-living my incredible blue mage from a previous FF game. ah, the sabers of doom.
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